Aniflan,Konopljarka(Carduelis cannabina)

naravno da je dobra zasto ne bi bila?dajes kao i svim pticama nema razlike

Da li muzjak aniflan ima crvene grudi i na celu samo kad je silan ili stalno?Pitam jel drugar ima aniflana gde se samo nazire crveno na grudima dok na celu cema uopste nema

Slikacu ga pa cu postaviti slike

C.cannabina kad nije`silan`, a to bude od jeseni kad dobije zimsko perje, nema crvene na celu i razvodnji mu se crvena na grudima. Naravno, govorimo o muzjaku.

hvala tutti

nema na cemu:)

Ja sam vidjao crveno na celu, grudima i u korenu repa tokom cele godine, tako da nema veze sa naznacenom teorijom. U kavezu se desava da posle prvog mitarenja nema crvenog ni na jednom delu tela, zavisi od uslova.

Hajde ponovo, dakle kad ptica nije u nupcijalnom perju, onom kojim se ogrne pre parenja i zbog parenja, a to je obicno po zavrsetku sezone parenja a pred zimsku sezonu kad se ogrce toplijim perjem muzjak u prirodi nema potrebe da bude mnogo privlacan, vaznije je preziveti, te tako nema potrebu i nema crvene boje na glavi a gotovo da je nema ni na grudima.Ovo se potpuno slaze sa prethodnim: Zavisi od uslova. A uslovi su: Nema parenja, ide zima, cuvaj glavu!

Hoces da kazes da mu u medjuvremenu izraste novo crveno perje na prolece samo zbog parenja ili mu postojece koje nije bilo crveno vec smedje(normalne boje za aniflana) pocrveni na prolece. Pa Vi gospodeni jednimo da ste gledali ptice na nekom dokumentarcu o rajskim pticama na Nat Geo pa da sad prenosite iskustva na aniflana. Lepo sam napisao, u zatocenistvu retko koji ima crveni perje posle prvog mitarenja i to zavisi od uslova drzanja i same ptice. A u prirodi ima primeraka koji i sad Zimi imaju crveno na glavi i korenu repa naravno ima onih koji imaju samo na grudima. Znaci ili ne znate ili niste videli ! Hvala lepo.

ovo je malo, za moj ukus, stvar ukusa. Ko je sta video i kako to opisuje. Ja bih se drzao teme, prirode i literature. Ne bih u ovakve reakcije niti u licno obracanje kao GOSPODINE, pa ovde se o lepim stvarima radi, o pticama!

iz iskustva mogu reci da izlezeni u kavezu aniflani ne dobijaju ni priblizno crvenilo jedinkama iz prirode. Inace u prirodi aniflan cuva karotin u svom telu ne bi li se ubukao u svadbeno odelo

Upravo tako, slazem se:)

Sada je sredina zimskog perioda posmatrao sam vise jata aniflana i nisam siguran da su vam teorije bas tacne.
U istom jatu ima muzjaka koji su jarko crvene boje dok neki muzjaci imaju samo kafene grudi.ptice u jatu trebalo bi da su iz istog kraja pa su imale istu hranu iste uslove .
ostaje samo starost ptica spored mene starije ptice imaju crveniju boju jer su imale vise vremena da sakupe karotin dok mladi muzjaci imaju samo kafene boje.
za ptice u zatocenisvu slazem se sa gocketom ni priblizno nisu tako crveni kao u prirodu

Do polovine jeseni pokoji primerak moze da ima jos uvek crvenilo u korenu repa ali ne tako jake boje kao u sezoni parenja...ali kako zima ide ptica gubi tu boju..pocetkom proleca muzjaci pocinju da dobijaju jarko crvenu boju....

Bilo bi dobro to snimiti, poslati nekom ornitoloskom casopisu i postaviti to kao temu, iz toga bi se polako izdvajali muzjaci, zatim zreli muzjaci, a na osnovu datuma i mesta bi se mozda moglo napraviti i neko novo, relevantno, ornitolosko saopstenje. To bi bio najbolji put, put koji iskljucuje rekla-kazala a konkretno pomaze nauci.

Ima muzjaka koji imaju crvenilo na grudima ali intezitet te boje nije ni priblizna boji koju dobijaju u parenju...

tutti ::

ovo je malo, za moj ukus, stvar ukusa. Ko je sta video i kako to opisuje. Ja bih se drzao teme, prirode i literature. Ne bih u ovakve reakcije niti u licno obracanje kao GOSPODINE, pa ovde se o lepim stvarima radi, o pticama!

Tutti, nemojte pisati na osnovu nekih svojih zakljucaka koje ste stekli u teoriju i citanje literature.
Iskustvo govori drugo, koliko vidim vi nemate takvo iskustvo i shvatite da aniflani u zatocenistvo gube svoju crvenu boju.
U teorii pise da aniflani koriste preko 360 vrste razne hrane pa na osnovu ovog podatka shvatite sta sve njima fali u ishrani .

Ovo je, izgleda, praksa da se obraca sa pausalijama, ne znamo kako neko zakljucuje sta je iz prakse a sta ne, i kako neko zakljucuje da na ovom blogu nisu pozeljni teorija i literatura? Mislio sam da postoje filteri za ovakve reakcije, da neko takvo sto pregleda i kaze stogod povodom toga? Sta sve konopljarkama fali u ishrani je odlicno pitanje. Pravi odgovor bi mogao da pocne od sada, i za ornitologiju i za avikulturu! Sto pre da nabrojimo tih 360 vrsta hrane, pocinjem ja sa: seme konoplje, ne smotano lisce!

tutti vec si pogresio...to sto aniflana nazivaju konopljar ne znaci da mu je konoplja osnovno seme...sta vise niujednoj semenskoj smesi specijalnoj za aniflane nema konoplje..a semena koja aniflan pretezno jede su:niger,susam,perila bela,perila braon,uljana repica,lan beli,cikorija,seme salate(bela i crna),svetlo seme,ovas lomljeni,seme koprive,seme breze,seme zlatno zadovoljstvo,japanski proso,senegalski proso,mana proso,zuti nocurak,plavi mak,semena raznog korova,semena trava,

evo kupovna semenska smesa koju jedu moji aniflani i kojom hrani vecina inostranih odgajivaca...sastav je koji sam naveo vec...konoplje nema

https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img442/3716/kima9.jpgi

Eto, ne samo da nema `smotanog lisca konoplje`, vec ni semena. Ja i dalje insistiram na tome da pobrojimo tih 360 sastojaka hrane konopljarki kako bismo, prvo, ucinili dobro i tim pticama i njihovim odgajivacima i, drugo, saznali kako se na srpskom zovu svi ti sastojci. To bi bio zajednicki poduhvat koji bi pomogao i nauci i konopljarkama i odgajivacima. Blog je za taj `posao` idealan:)

takodje semena koja aniflan rado jede su... chia,seme arisa,seme bosiljka,seme sargarepe,seme celera,seme razlicka,seme hajducke trave

tutti ja sam skoro postavio jedan link i zato dobio sam opomenu pred baniranja.
Evo sada dajem ti tekst od tog linka pa posto si uporan evo ti teksta pa prevedi ga i molimte prebroj koliko vrsta hrane jedu aniflane. :

Food. Small to medium-sized seeds; probably takes fewer invertebrates than any other west Palearctic finch apart from crossbills Loiua or Twite C. flavirostris, although importance in nestling diet unclear. In Schleswig-Holstein, 53°o of 2844 foraging observations over year were on agricultural land, 44% waste ground, 2% parks and gardens, 1% hedges (Eber 1956). In eastern England, 36% of observations were in bushes less than 1 m above ground, 32% on ground, 29% on herbs, 3% higher branches; of 139 feeding actions, 52% while standing on ground, 44°o normal perching, and 4% in flight; did not hang upside-down while feeding (Kear 1962). Similarly in capti\ it\, 54 o
of postures perching, 3O°0 standing, 15% clinging to bent stems; only very briefly on vertical stems and not upside-down; intermediate in agility between Greenfinch C. chlons and (e.g.) Goldfinch C. carduelis or Siskin C. sptnus\ uses foot to hold down (e.g.) pappus while seed picked off, but seemingly not to hold seed-heads (etc.) pulled in with bill. Unable to pierce involucral bracts to get at ripening Compositae seeds so strips them down¬wards. (Newton 196/đ.) Skilfully opens Cruciferae pods without seeds falling out (Eber 1956). Seen feeding briefly on floating vegetation, sometimes hovering(Keymer 1975). In winter, forms large mixed flocks with other seed-eaters in open country, feeding much more on ground than in summer, though tends to remain together in groups within such flocks (Lack 1986, Deunert 1989); also forages in groups in breeding season «hen food abundant; new patches of food-plants quickly discovered this way, and predators more readily detected, an important con¬sideration when feeding in vegetation close to ground. Food for young and preferred seeds collected up to 1-1-2 km from nest and transported in large gullet (Deunert 1989; Frey 1989Ќ). For many details of seed handling, de-husking, bil! morphology, etc., see Eber (1956), Kear (1962), Ziswiler (1965), and Newton (19670). 15% of seeds eaten were less than 05 mg, 3i°0 0-5-10 ma, 52% i-to mg, 2°0 greater than 10 mg; size intermediate between those taken by C. chlrois and Redpoll C. flammea (Newton 19674, 1972). In captivity took smallest seeds along with C. carduelis (Kear 1962).

Diet in west Palearctic includes the following. Inver¬tebrates: mayflies (Ephemeroptera: .Siphlonuridae, Baetidae). damsel flies (Odonata: Agriidae), grasshoppers (Orthoptera: Acrididae), bugs (Hemiptera: Coreidae, Aphidoidea), scorpion flies (Mecoptera: Panorpidae), Lepidoptera (Tortricidae, Plutellidae, Geometridae), cad¬dis flies (Trichoptera: Limnephilidae), flies (Diptera: Tabanidae, Empididae, Muscidae), Hymenoptera (Cimbicidae, Empididae), beetles (Coleoptera: Carabidae, Scarabaeidae, Elateridae, Bruchidae, Curculionidae), spiders (Araneae: Araneidae), earthworms (Lumbricidae), snails (Pulmonata: Arionidae). Plants: seeds, fruits, etc., of con¬ifers (Coniferae), poplar Populus, birch Betula, alder Alnus, elm Ulmus, dogwood Cornus, buckthorn Rhamnus, guelder rose Viburnum, privet Ligustrum, hemp Cannabis, nettle Urtica, knotgrass, etc. Polygonum, sorrel, etc. Rumex, goosefoot, etc. Chenopodium, orache Atriplex, beet Beta, glasswort Salicornia, seablite Corispermum, chick-weed, etc. Stellaria, mouse-ear Cerastium, corn spurrey Spergula, sand spurrey Spergularia, buttercup, etc. Ranunculus, poppy Papaver, rape, etc. Brassica, hoary cress Cardaria, rocket, etc. Sisymbrium, wall rocket Diplotaxis, charlock Sinapis, radish Raphanus, garlic mustard Alliaria, sea kale Crambe, common whitlow-grass Erophila, scurvy-grass Cochlearia, pennycress Thlaspi, gold of pleas¬ure Camelina, shepherd's purse Capsella, meadowsweet Filipendula, strawberry Fragaria, cinquefoil Potenttlla, avens Geum, burnet Sanguisorba, rowan Sorbus, hawthorn Crataegus, trefoil Trtfoltum, Oxalis, flax Linum, purple loosestrife Lythrum, willowherb Epilobium, evening prim¬rose Oenothera, bilberry, etc. Vaccinium, primrose, etc. Primula, alkanet Anchusa, forget-me-not Myosotis, speed-well Veronica, eyebright Euphrasia, thyme Thymus, dead-nettle Lamium, self-heal Prunella, plantain Plantago, scabious Knautia, Succisa, Scabiosa, bindweed Convol¬vulus, goldenrod Solidago, daisy Bellis, mugwort, etc. Art¬emisia , bur marigold Bidens, chamomile Anthemis, scentless mayweed Matricaria, tansy, etc. Tanacetum, coltsfoot Tussilago, butterbur Petasites, groundsel Senecio, burdock Arctium, thistles Carduus, Cirsium, knapweed Centaurea, goatsbeard Tragopogon, chicory Cichorium, sow-thistle Sonchus, lettuce Lactuca, Chondrilla, dandelion Tarax¬acum, hawkbit Leontodon, hawksbeard Crepis, catsear Hypochoeris, hawkweed Hieracium, grasses and cereals (Gramineae). (Collinge 1924-7; Eber 1956; Pokrovskaya 1956; Glutz von Blotzheim 1962, Newton 19670; Dorn-busch 1981; Sabel 1983; Deunert 1989; F rev 1989*.)

Particularly dependent on weeds of open country and waste ground (especially Polygonaceae, Cruciferae, Caryophyllaceae, and Compositae), so habits determined to large extent by agricultural practices. (Eber 1956; Newton 1967a; Frey 1989/".) In Swiss Alps, preferred dandelion Taraxacum and mouse-ear Cerastium seeds; avoided colts¬foot Tussilago, probably because seeds too small for effi¬cient feeding (Frey 1989/1). Diet in Oxford area (southern England) reflected plant abundance (Newton 1967a). In captive tests, preferred seeds of flax Linum, Brassica, hemp Cannabis, thistle Carduus, and lastly grasses (Gramineae) (Kear 1962; Ziswiler 1965). In Oxford, took seeds of 25 of 30 commonest weeds in agricultural area, second only to Greenfinch C. chloris in range (Newton 1967a), and same breadth of diet recorded in Schleswig-Holstein (northern Germany) (Eber 1956), although here cereal grains were important component, while none recorded in diet of Oxford birds though cereals common in study area. Milky seeds preferred, ripe ones often avoided; only rarely eats buds or seeds of fleshy fruits (Newton 1967a; Frey 1989Ѓ). In Oxford, of c. 12 500 feeding obervations, 330o by number on seeds of Cruciferae (especially charlock), n°0 Polygonum, u°0 goosefoot, 9% chickweed, 5% thistles, 5°0 dandelion, 3% Rumex, 3% rocket, and 3% mugwort. 405 gullets, September-April, contained 50% by volume seeds of Cruciferae (mainly charlock), 24% Polygonum, 14% goosefoot, 2°0 thistles, 1% meadow¬sweet, and i°0 mugwort; only 1 out of 38 adult stomachs obtained in breeding season contained any animal material: 2 small beetle larvae probably picked up with seeds. (New¬ton 1967a.) In England, 39 stomachs contained 857 items, of which 42% by number seeds of charlock, 22% Senecio, i8°0 Rumex, 7% chickweed, 3% self-heal, 3% knotgrass, and 2°0 adult and larval Lepidoptera (Collinge 1924-7). In Schleswig-Holstein, of 2677 observations, 19% by number Brassica, 17% cereals, 13% mugwort, io°0 Poly¬gonum, 6°0 Rumex, 5% charlock, 4% rocket, 4% mouseear (Eber 1956). In spring, main food is milky seeds of chickweed, dandelion, and, to some extent, grasses such as Poa or Echinochloa; in summer, probably takes same seeds as fed to young, though on average smaller, e.g. unripe seeds of Rumex, Polygonum, and Cruciferae; in Bretagne (western France), very fond of colza Brassica oletfera at this time of year; in autumn, feeds on thistles, and in Schleswig-Holstein study area on rape and cereals, and in winter on goosefoot or any available Cruciferae. Often at coastal vegetation and on salt-marshes in winter, also in ploughed fields and, increasingly, in birch trees; even in severe weather very seldom comes to bird-tables, etc., and in snow depends on finding tall plants such as grasses, goosefoot, or Cruciferae. (Eber 1956; Mahéo 1964; Newton 1967a.) At c. 2000 m in south-west Swit¬zerland, before seeds appear in early June, takes those of previous year on ground as snow melts; fresh seeds taken generally according to abundance (though see above) and seed stage. In early June, diet ioc°0 (by observation and calculation) dandelion seeds, proportion gradually decreasing over summer, late July, 36% buttercup, 24% hawksbeard, and 22% avens; early August, 40% hawkbit. 24% buttercup, and 22% mouse-ear; mid-August, 90°(, shepherd's purse; late August, 66°0 Polygonum, 24% shepherd's purse, and in early September, 57% shepherd's purse, 35% Polygonum (« = IOI 165 in total). (Frey 1989A) Captive birds took average 26-5-2 g fresh weight of seed kernels per day (Kear 1962).

Apparently some disagreement about extent of inver¬tebrate component in nestling diet; modern studies have found diet almost entirely seeds, with little trace of animal material, but according to Collinge (1924-7) and Pokrovskaya (1956), diet largely insects. These discrepancies could be caused by sampling methods. In Oxford, of 3979 samples, 17% by volume seeds of Cruciferae (mainly char¬lock), 16% dandelion, 11% chickweed, 11% thistles, 8% elm, 7% catsear, 6% sorrel. Insects found in only 2 of 62 broods: in one, 15% of diet for first 9 days aphids and caterpillars; in other, a few small beetle larvae from seed heads. (Newton 1967(7.) Also in England, however, 30 stomachs contained larval Diptera, caterpillars, aphids, beetles, and spiders, and apparently no seeds (Collinge 1924-7). In central Germany, 6 collar-samples contained half-ripe seeds of dandelion, shepherd's purse and other Cruciferae, chickweed, corn spurrey, and Rumex; inver-tebrates found «ere aphids, caterpillars, and 1 bug (Hemiptera), all probably collected incidentally with seeds (Dornbusch 1981). No invertebrates found in another German study, in which early broods were fed almost only coltsfoot seeds, later ones Brassica and grass seeds (Handtke and Witsack 1972). Hachfeld (1979) found 1st broods given mostly half-ripe grass seeds, and 2nd broods also only seeds, though more varied. Deunert (1989) found 90% of diet unripe seeds. In major study in Swiss Alps, nestling diet basically as adults', with no insects found: mostly seeds of dandelion early in season, avens, butter¬cup, and chamomile later on (Frey 1989^). In St Peters-burg region (western Russia), 607 collar-samples contained 1304 items, of which 255°0 by number beetles (11% Elateridae, 10% Chrysomeiidae), 20-7% Diptera (19% Muscidae), 121% larval mayflies, 10-7% Lep-idoptera (10% Geometridae), 5,0% spiders, 2,9% Hymen-optera (2% Braconidae), 1,8% larval caddis flies, 1,6% Hemiptera; 14,3% plant material (old berries of Vaccinium, seeds of Oxalis, alder catkins, young nettle leaves, and some cereal grains). Plant material accounted for 50% of food at one nest in early August, remainder of samples from mid-May and mid-June. (Pokrovskaya 1956.) Also in St Petersburg region, Mal'chevski and Pukinski (1983) considered invertebrates much overestimated in earlier studies and nestling diet to be in fact mostly seeds. Nest¬lings at 8 days old received 0,4-0,6 ml (0,2-1,9) dry volume per hr (Dornbusch 1981). Young probably given larger seeds on average than in adult diet, e.g. more elm seeds, which weigh 50 mg (Newton 1967a); but see Handtke and Witsack (1972) above, where some broods fed mostly very small seeds of coltsfoot.

Alal vera, svaka cast, pokusacu da organizujem prevodjenje ovog spiska. potrajace ali se isplati. Jos jednom svaka cast!

ako nije problem da se prevod postavi da bi ga svi sa zadovoljstvom procitali, unapred hvala

Potrajace zbog mnogo strucnih i retkih reci kojih bas i nema po uobicajenim recnicima. No, cim bude prevedeno bice postavljeno na forum.